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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Docking Techniques Seminar

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/04/2014 : 08:32:18

When I moved up to a 35' inboard powered boat, I suddenly realized that I had to learn some new skills to maneuver it in and out of it's slip.

This seminar was presented by Captain Tom Tursi who is author of the American Sailing Association's ASA118 Docking Endorsement textbook, and the founder of the Maryland School of Sailing & Seamanship, a sailing school for serious sailors. If I had seen it when I was struggling to learn, it would have made it a lot easier.

This seminar is a little over an hour and 20 minutes long. I have watched it once, and intend to watch it again just before launch day next spring. It will help you, regardless of whether your boat is inboard or outboard powered. I can't recommend it too highly.

I'd like to download the video to my laptop, so I can watch it without being connected to the internet, but I'm not sufficiently savvy to know how to do it. Can anyone help me? (My present laptop is running Windows 7.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PoGMAEjiHmU

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 09:05:36

I found this short video almost as useful as the seminar, and it is a lot more interesting to watch. I wish they had just published the raw PowerPoint slides from the seminar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qOPM_SMJCc

This video is perhaps even more helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TMB4-EPMAI

The amount of prop walk that you get boat to boat varies a lot. I used to use prop walk a lot to do tight turns, but I recently discovered that the rudder stops on my boat were installed incorrectly. Now I don't need to use prop walk to turn in place, I can just turn the wheel hard over.

I also sail on a friend's Yankee 30. It and the Tartan 30 have the prop in an unusual place (just behind the keel and miles from the rudder). This gives the prop walk very little leverage and makes it a much less effective tool.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 10:11:05

Both of those videos are excellent, but they only deal with basic principles, and those demonstrations are performed in ideal, windless conditions. The longer video shows how to make adjustments to deal with crosswinds and currents, and how to use spring lines to get the boat pointed in the direction that you need to go. Boat handling is difficult enough in ideal conditions, but we don't always have the luxury of being able to bring the boat into it's slip, or taking it out, in windless conditions. The longer video shows how to handle the boat in a variety of less than ideal conditions. When you are on a cruise, and pull into an unfamiliar slip or gas dock with a contrary wind blowing, for example, you need to know how to get in and out before the boat gets blown downwind into someplace where you don't want to be.

Your second video makes an especially clear differentiation between the use of prop walk and prop wash. (Prop walk turns the boat when in reverse, and prop wash turns the boat when in forward. That's why we usually use both techniques in rotating a boat in place. With the helm turned and held hard to starboard, the stern is kicked to port by prop walk when in reverse, and the stern is kicked to port by prop wash when in forward gear. By alternating between forward and reverse, the boat rotates in a clockwise direction.)

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 11:32:47

Using spring lines also depends on a different set of ideal conditions -- a dock layout that allows you to use them. On the east coast it seems common to surround a slip with pilings which are handy for spring lines.

Out here (Pacific NW) there are few pilings and typically you only have a dock available on one side of your slip. I've found few places where spring lines can help you get both in and out, unless you are willing to either back in or back out.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 12:45:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 Using spring lines also depends on a different set of ideal conditions -- a dock layout that allows you to use them.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Spring lines are typically used in conditions that are less than ideal, e.g., when the wind is blowing across your slip, and you need to go to windward, but you can't because a crosswind is blowing your bow downwind before you can gain steerageway. In that case, you can use a spring line and engine power to force the bow to windward. Or, if you are alongside a gas dock, for example, with a strong crosswind blowing the boat against the dock, you can use a spring line to get either the bow or stern away from the dock, so that you can motor away without being blown down onto the dock. Another example, I crew on a Cal 25 that is docked in Annapolis in a slip who's fairway is only about one foot wider than the boat's length. The only way it can get out of the slip is with a spring line, that will pull the bow to windward before the bow hits the piling on the other side of the fairway. No matter where you sail, you will encounter situations in which you can only get away by use of a spring line, coupled with engine power. This seminar is the most comprehensive that I have seen, in describing how to deal with most of the difficult boat handling situations that you are likely to encounter. If you know how to do these things, you'll be able to cope with almost any docking situation that you might encounter, either on your boat, or while chartering.

The Maryland School of Sailing & Seamanship charges several hundred dollars when it teaches this seminar. With this seminar, you'll get all the theory that they teach, minus the onboard instruction, but it'll be free. That's why I posted it. It's a good deal!

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/04/2014 12:48:20

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 13:10:36

You might want to check out this Boat US article on [url="http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/February/docking-with-spring-lines.asp"]different descriptions and uses of spring lines[/url].

Underlined words are HOT links.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 15:15:44

I think you misunderstood my point.

Spring lines work great if you have lots of stuff to spring off of. In the Chesapeake it looks common for there to be pilings all the way around a slip.

Spring lines aren't so useful in the common dock arrangements around here (Pacific NW). There are very few pilings, many marinas don't even have cleats, and you typically share a wide slip with another boat.

I understand how to use spring lines to help maneuver the boat in tight spaces, and have used the techniques myself. However I don't find them reliable tools out here because there is often nothing to spring off of.

Edited by - awetmore on 01/04/2014 15:17:25

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 15:52:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 ...Spring lines aren't so useful in the common dock arrangements around here (Pacific NW). There are very few pilings, many marinas don't even have cleats,... However I don't find them reliable tools out here because there is often nothing to spring off of.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just curious--what do you tie up to?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/04/2014 15:55:56

Kim Luckner
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 16:18:15

Hi Steve,
To answer your original question I'd download Realplayer. It allows you to download videos that don't have copyright protection. Just paste the youtube page into the realplayer browser window and a small pop-up will appear that asks if you'd like to download the video.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 16:35:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 I think you misunderstood my point.

Spring lines work great if you have lots of stuff to spring off of. In the Chesapeake it looks common for there to be pilings all the way around a slip.

Spring lines aren't so useful in the common dock arrangements around here (Pacific NW). There are very few pilings, many marinas don't even have cleats, and you typically share a wide slip with another boat.

I understand how to use spring lines to help maneuver the boat in tight spaces, and have used the techniques myself. However I don't find them reliable tools out here because there is often nothing to spring off of.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Wow! I see what you mean. At a glance, I see some boats that have no piling between slips. In some cases, one boat ties its bow dockline to the deck cleat of the boat next to it, and in other instances, I can't see that they are tied to anything on one side. I see some houseboats that look like they must be using a Mediterranean mooring. I have seen some houseboats on the Ches that look similar. Some of the Seattle area docks appear to be floating, while most of ours are fixed. I suppose you could get by with fewer pilings with floating docks.

In the Ches, if you don't have pilings all around your boat(and some don't) then you almost have to haul the boat to protect it from a major tropical storm. Otherwise, when the wind inevitably shifts, your boat will get smashed against the dock or against your neighbor. Again, with floating docks, you could protect your boat with fenders and shorten up on the docklines, so the boat won't move around as much.

But, if that's the way they build marinas out there, I guess you just have to learn how to deal with them, and apparently you have.

Nevertheless, if your boat is tied to the bow cleat of the boat next to you, I suppose you could also spring off that cleat, if necessary, to get out of your slip.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 17:01:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kim Luckner
 Hi Steve,
To answer your original question I'd download Realplayer. It allows you to download videos that don't have copyright protection. Just paste the youtube page into the realplayer browser window and a small pop-up will appear that asks if you'd like to download the video.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks Kim! I knew somebody on this forum would know how to do it.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 19:05:33

If you're industrious, you can take a series of screen grabs as the PPT proceeds. That is if you're industrious. I suffer death by PowerPoint via WebEx regularly at work, and occasionally I will find one that's really useful, and often the presenter will have every intention of publishing it afterwards, but they never quite get around to doing it.
My Win7 and Win 8 PC has screen grab on it so I help myself during the live presentation. I just save them as JPGs with a sequential numbering file name and put them in a folder, then ZIP it. Later I can use an image viewer to review the materials, and they're collated in sequence.
Works like a charm.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2014 : 23:15:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 ...Spring lines aren't so useful in the common dock arrangements around here (Pacific NW). There are very few pilings, many marinas don't even have cleats,... However I don't find them reliable tools out here because there is often nothing to spring off of.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just curious--what do you tie up to?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The typical nicer dock here is a floating dock with a piling about every 4th finger slip. Two boats fit between finger docks. There are cleats on the finger docks. Here is a drawing of my previous slip that shows a situation where a spring doesn't help:

I can spring on my way in by getting a line over the cleat that is on the corner of the dock. Springing on the way out doesn't help, unless I were to spring off of my neighbor's boat (not really an option).

A less expensive design is found on state park floats and everywhere in BC. That has a cedar 2x4 mounted 2" above the dock. You tie off to that 2x4 using half hitches. Good luck trying to slip a line under it while docking.

Our average tidal changes are about 10' per day, with roughly 15' maximum. Floating docks are the only realistic option.

When I had my Catalina 25 I was on a lake so there were no tidal changes. My boat was on a roughly 120' linear dock with 4 25' boats. That had it's own challenges with docking.

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